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Oak Island Treasure • View topic - Oak Island Artifacts: Where Are They Now?

Oak Island Artifacts: Where Are They Now?

A restricted area for registered users to describe their own research, request assistance or organise group/shared research projects and digs.

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Postby Ken on Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:08 am

Hi bonnie,

Well, as I have said before, there is no Masonic influence with the mystery of Oak Island short of the number of Masons who have taken an interest in the search. As for there being a secret Masonic society out there, there are no secrets left in Freemasonry. Although I, personally, refuse to disclose the modes of recognition - the grips and passwords of the degrees - they are available in libraries and here on the Web. There is nothing more to it, just plain and simple nothing more to it.

I'm not a betting man short of buying the occasional lottery ticket, but if I was a betting man I would bet my life on the fact that Freemasons had absolutely nothing to do with the original workings on Oak Island.

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Postby Bonnie on Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:50 am

ken.

first off. its been customary for masons to deny they are masons. correct.
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Postby Ken on Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:35 am

bonnie wrote:first off. its been customary for masons to deny they are masons. correct.


No, not correct, at least not correct in North America. For example, I just read a book which is actually a brief biography of Alexander Keith, the founder of the brewery that still brews the Keith's beer that we talk about so much here on the forum. He was also the Grand Master of Masons in Nova Scotia. The book goes into some detail about the Masonic parades held in the mid 1800's in Halifax - pretty hard to say they were denying being Masons when thry were parading as Masonic group. As I think of it, we still do parade, but not in the numbers seen by Alexander Keith. And have you ever seen the Shriners in a parade? Every Shriner must, by definition, first be a Mason.

bonnie wrote:so when you say"
, but if I was a betting man I would bet my life on the fact that Freemasons had absolutely nothing to do with the original workings on Oak Island.

how am i suppose to believe that.


Believe it or not bonnie, but I am being 100% serious and truthful.

bonnie wrote:besides, it was the knights templars that were in nova scotia first. and the masons claim they are the same group. correct or not?


Well, sort of. The present day Knights Templar are a "concordant body" to Freemasonry, and are loosely based on the original Knights Templar that were a chivalric order and fighters in the Crusades. Twenty-first century KTs are far from being such warriors. (Most are like me: old, grey haired and way too close to death by natural causes to fight in wars of any kind.)

bonnie wrote:you may think its a great group to be a member of. i am sure it may indeed be. like my dad tells me they do community charity. thats excellant for a group to do that.


In fact, millions of dollars a year are raised by Freemasons as Shriners for their hospitals alone.

bonnie wrote:i dont want get on your bad side ken, even in an internet forum. because i like you very much and also your the only person in masonry that i know who keeps me from being more angry at the whole bunch.


Don't worry, bonnie, you will never be on my "bad side." We disagree on the involvement of the Masons in Oak Island, that's all.

bonnie wrote:you are free to think i am some conspiracy nut. but i think i am clear headed on my reasons. i would be happy to pm you my reasons. every single one of them. but if i did that i would become more entertainment than i already am around this forum. i know i get geered and smirked. which just makes me keep moving my agenda forward.


bonnie, my dear, I have never thought of you as a nut of any kind - conspiracy or otherwise. Nor do I jeer or smirk at you. Never have, never will. Tease you a little maybe, but my experience is that we tease those we like.

bonnie wrote:this is my agenda: once i find out what is going on with this mystery i will tell it. every detail.


As will I bonnie. Every detail. And I would still bet my life that Freemasons had absolutely nothing to do with the original workings on Oak Island, but I don't want to argue about it any more. In fact, I'm going to make this my last post concerning Freemasonry.

But speaking of Knights Templar, Freemasonry and Oak Island (among other things), here would be an interesting vacation tour! If anybody decides to take the tour, at one point you will be within a few miles of my home - so be sure to let me know you are coming so we can meet up.

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Some Masons are More Open Than Others...

Postby TemplarScribe on Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:59 am

And I would still bet my life that Freemasons had absolutely nothing to do with the original workings on Oak Island, but I don't want to argue about it any more. In fact, I'm going to make this my last post concerning Freemasonry.


Unfortunately, there are always new researchers with unsubstantiated claims about Masonic involvement that need to be addressed. Rest assured, I am not one of those writers who see Templars hiding behind every oak tree. I do believe there are mysteries involving the Templars that need to be tracked down and exposed to the light. Whether those legends have any basis in actual fact will be determined by better historians than myself.

But there are definitely some legends that have turned out to be based in fact. Even if the Money Pit was made by Spanish or Portuguese sailors, there can always be Templar roots traced back to the "Diaspora" of Templars to the south in the early 1300s. Bit of a stretch, true, but there is an interconnectedness to history that we try to compartmentalize at times, to our regret.

But speaking of Knights Templar, Freemasonry and Oak Island (among other things), here would be an interesting vacation tour! If anybody decides to take the tour, at one point you will be within a few miles of my home - so be sure to let me know you are coming so we can meet up.


If my book gets me out of my normal 9-5, then consider it a date!

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Postby Bonnie on Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:06 am

ken, thanks.
[
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Back and Forth

Postby TemplarScribe on Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:36 am

More back-and-forth as Davout stands humbled before the Tank:

1. T. Penn leary may be right, but he may be wrong too. There is no other reference to them using the tackle block that I am aware of.


Understood. I just can't believe the b&t would still be there, even after as little as thirty years exposed to the elements. To me, Leary's story makes as much sense as any other how the b&t came into the legend.

3. The stone was last seen, in Halifax, in what is now the Halifax Seed Company store. It was not used in a shoe factory, it was use in a book bindery business where according to testimony, the characters were worn off the stone and no longer visible.


You're right, my mind had inexplicably linked the "pounding" done on the stone with shoe repair. Not sure why. So, when was the last time the stone was seen?

6. The parchment sits in a safe, not on display.... C14 has not been done on it, but it has been analysed by experts.


C-14 testing is absolutely necessary. Wonder why they never did one? Heck, Tank, I'll buy, if you'll fly.

7. That the drilled stone “disappeared” is sort of a teaser. It is a huge rock and certainly did not walk away, unless those pesky Leprechauns took it. I think the tide either washed it off the coffer dam, or it simply rolled over covering the holes.


That certainly is possible. Didn't know it was "on" the coffer dam. Of course, at least one boulder was dynamited, and cranes have a way of just tossing those big boulders aside.

11 & 12. Whether or not the Annapolis Stone has any connection to OI is yet to be discovered. Remember, Nova Scotia’s earliest known settlement was 1604, two years before the discovery of the Annapolis Stone.


Actually, the A. Stone appears to have been discovered in 1827. One Masonic author suggests it could be a simple gravestone for one of Champlain's explorers, which is as likely as any other explanation.

13. There is another coin to ponder, supposedly found by a chap with the surname of Martin in the 1940's. There is a picture of it here on the forum, perhaps one of our keener colleagues could direct you to it.


Yes, please! Anyone out there able to recall what thread it was in? Funny that it's not mentioned in any of the books I've read, which now includes Harris and MacPhie's "Oak Island and its Lost Treasure," and the Fanthorpes' "Mysteries of the Temple Treasure and the Holy Grail."

14 and 15. Mrs. Restall’s daughter is supposed to be writing a book about her Dad’s time on OI. I’ll hold comments on the china until then.


Finding that china, and being able to date the pieces through style and glazing to their likely date of transport from China to Mexico, is another valuable artifact. Could be as significant as the Spanish scissors or any of the coins found.

16. Blankenship says the scissors were not found under one of the box drains, they were found close by. None the less, they are old, identified as Spanish, and a tantalizing clue.


Well, that location contradicts D'Arcy's latest book, I think. Too bad it wasn't found under the stone, but at least we know the truth. I agree, that presents a very significant find.

19. Ok, picture this, Toronto airport, summer of 2004....Funny enough?


Heh heh heh!!! Funny enough that it ought to find its way into a novel somewhere. I've already got my magic shoehorn out.

Coconut fibre can still be found on OI if you know where to look. It’s at the public archives too.


True, coconut fibre and hundreds of worked or moved stones, for that matter, are in abundance. But my limited experience with psychometry is that it appears to work best with items kept in close proximity to humans, and even better if it's a personal item, like a lucky coin, a watch or jewelry. TBH, I'm not sure how accurate even the best psychic would be with, say, a coin that fell out of a chest that's lain on a sandy beach for 300 years. But, that's where the imagination of the writer comes in, the duct-tape of a good storyteller.

While excavating in Smith’s Cove, Restall found a stone with 1704 marked on it. Many believe it was a hoax rock planted by earlier workers, but, there is no conclusiveness to that.


Any idea where that stone is now? It'd be valuable to compare it with any other engraved NS stones, like the plastered-in Annapolis Stone.

BTW- It's interesting that they lost the Annapolis Stone. In my story, I follow the Ark of the Covenant through the Book of Maccabbees account, where the prohpet Jeremiah has it hidden in the mountains east of Jerusalem, but the workers who do the burying can't recall where they put it. "It's now where only God alone can find it." I guess Jeremiah must have used the same temp agency as the Toronto Mason's lodge. (:^D)

As for a role for me in the story you are writing, why can’t I be the guy with a bull whip and fedora being chased by angry natives (who) gets the pretty girl in the end.


Sorry, I try to keep my writing as far away from any comparison to bad-archeology-as-depicted-by-Hollywood-for-dumbed-down-American-audiences as I possibly can. So, no remake of "Bridge on the River Kwai." That was what you were referring to, right?

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Temple of Doomish.

Postby Tank04 on Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:31 pm

TS,

I received your wink, wink, in the mail yesterday and I welcome you to the nudge, nudge. Your secret decoder ring will be in the mail shortly along with instructions on our hand shakes, blood donations bank and allegorical hidden messaging system. Seriously, thank you for your interest in the nudge, nudge.

1. Yes, maybe that is the way it was, we will never know for sure. I am a bit of a traditionalist and will probably spout off the old story of finding the tackle block hanging from the tree forever. Any old records I have seen certainly echo this.
3. The last time the stone was seen I believe, was around the thirties, but I’m not positive about that. Harris’s book covers that quite well including who saw it and their impressions. I’ll check it out later and PPM you.
6. When I say the parchment is now quite small, it’s no joke. It’s smaller than the nail of your pinky finger, maybe half the size. I don’t know how much they would need to test it, but may I suggest that “any” is too much.
7. I can promise you the drilled stone was never dynamited and was not moved by a crane. It was there in 1975, four years after the last time any excavation work was done to the coffer dam. It has slipped or rolled from tidal action. I have looked for it and have found a rock of the correct dimensions, but the holes cannot be seen.
11 &12. Yes, I have read that too, and it certainly makes sense to me. It is also the best researched of the possibilities and appears credible. Fellow poster Ken is a great guy for finding these things and my hat goes off to him for it.
13. I will send you a picture of it tonight because I don’t think I will be able to find it here on the forum. By all means, if anyone else knows where the coin picture is, tell Templatscribe. It has not been mentioned in any books because it is a recent revelation.
16. I know that contradicts D’Arcy’s book, but my source for the information is pretty darned good. That is a minor point anyway, it was found in Smith’s Cove.
- Gee, sure would be nice if someone were to use that story, they asked me first.
TBH, I'm not sure how accurate even the best psychic would be with, say, a coin that fell out of a chest that's lain on a sandy beach for 300 years. But, that's where the imagination of the writer comes in, the duct-tape of a good storyteller.

- Sorry, I’m a hard sell on this but there is an old saying, “never let a little lie stand in the way of a good story”.
- I don’t know where the 1704 stone is, maybe Restall’s daughter has it. That will come to light someday.
- “Bridge on the River Kwai”, no, I was thinking more Harrison Fordish, temple of doom etc.....
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Postby Ken on Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:18 pm

bonnie wrote:a tour put on by the nova scotian masons. brilliant fun!


Actually, I don't believe it is put on by the Masons, although I stand to be corrected. I believe it is a commercial tour company. I have requested information on the tour.

bonnie wrote:i will try to not talk about the masons anymore too.


bonnie, me dear, you continue to talk all you want about the Masons. As much as we disagree on Masonic involvement on OI you have the right to post whatever you wish. Having said that, I won't be jumping to the defense of the fraternity any more. I just find it frustrating when the same old mistruths are repeated by anybody, and I'm not speaking about you specifically, when better information is available.

bonnie wrote:p.s. i would probably be creeped out hanging with the men in black for a week.


Don't worry, we are really just normal men who enjoy the company of others with the same interests and ideas. I only wear black when in my tuxedo, other than that I prefer normal colours!!! :lol: :lol:

bonnie wrote:bonnie says she would love to come to nova scotia just to have some of your homemade peach wine


Any time!!! I always have a bottle chilled, ready to open.

Best wishes,

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Re: Back and Forth

Postby Mad Davy Kidd on Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:09 pm

TemplarScribe wrote:More back-and-forth as Davout stands humbled before the Tank:

Tank wrote:13. There is another coin to ponder, supposedly found by a chap with the surname of Martin in the 1940's. There is a picture of it here on the forum, perhaps one of our keener colleagues could direct you to it.


Yes, please! Anyone out there able to recall what thread it was in? Funny that it's not mentioned in any of the books I've read, which now includes Harris and MacPhie's "Oak Island and its Lost Treasure," and the Fanthorpes' "Mysteries of the Temple Treasure and the Holy Grail."


Tank and TS,

Call me keen ;-)

I believe the thread in question is here: http://forum.oakislandtreasure.co.uk/vi ... .php?t=349

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Keener

Postby Tank03 on Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:18 pm

MDK,


Ahhhhh, that's the stuff. Those young eyes and brain work so well.

Behold Templar scribe, the coin of Martin.....................
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