Scott Wolter has it wrong

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Re: Scott Wolter has it wrong

Postby wayward on Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:27 pm

n4n224ccw wrote:
wayward wrote:


wayward wrote:I never claimed to have "secret" information, but I do have information that can be easily researched by anyone inclined to do so. The inspiration comes from an old Native American word "gottawanna".


I will remind you of your post above,

wayward wrote:I do have information relative to this that I cannot share yet, a copout I know. but it is what it is.


If you can't share then it is a secret.


wayward wrote:btw, did you find proof yet of when the name "Charing Cross" arrived in the New Ross area?


Regardless of what real documents are provided or the lack of such a name in the historical record, property deeds, or correspondence which makes any such reference to a Charing Cross existing before Sherbrooke's grant as laughable...the realm of alternative speculation needs to prove their assertions.


Its not a secret, I just don't want to tell you yet, but of course you could figure it out yourself. Beginning with nine supposed Knights on a supposed quest to protect pilgrims shortly after the Christian conquest of the Holy Land in the First Crusade. Actually it begins a little before that with a Jewish Rabbi named Rashi from Troyes.

Certainly not laughable, IMHO, if you can't find evidence of what you would consider a proper date then you can't call my dates wrong.
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Re: Scott Wolter has it wrong

Postby n4n224ccw on Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:34 pm

wayward wrote:As for your maps, I would think they would be sourced as any kind of evidence only if they also show the other small communes that make up the old New Ross area, which consist of, Aaldersville, Forties, Fraxville, Lake Ramsay, Mill Road, Harriston, Glegarry, Seffernville (called earlier, Dutch Settlement) or Leville.



Here is a link to NS's Crown Land Information Management Centre where you can all of the original land grants. All of the communities listed above are noted, except LeVille which didnt come to exist until the 20th Century see maps 37, 45 and 46.

If you care to examine these maps, especially the northern section of sheet 46, you will note that much land was granted to NS Central Railway company.

Here is a link to the company's history.

http://www.rocarchives.com/Articles/Cam ... ailway.htm

As you can read, they were given authorization to build a railroad bewteen New Germany and Windsor and another line to Bedford. Leaving New Germany and proceeding towards Windsor would take them right through the New Ross Area. There can be no doubt the folks of New Ross petitioned NS Central for a station and were perhaps overzealous to place a Charing Cross sign in anticipation of naming their railway station after the more famous station in London...but alas it does not appear that branch ever happened.
The post Revolutionary history of Oak Island is a complex web of lies and partial truths to sort through.

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Re: Scott Wolter has it wrong

Postby n4n224ccw on Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:39 pm

wayward wrote: Its not a secret, I just don't want to tell you yet, but of course you could figure it out yourself. Beginning with nine supposed Knights on a supposed quest to protect pilgrims shortly after the Christian conquest of the Holy Land in the First Crusade. Actually it begins a little before that with a Jewish Rabbi named Rashi from Troyes.


I've researched, examined, and confirmed what is factual and what is not, a little more closely than you, especially events post 1308. I suggest you try the same and depart from such scholarly sources as "Knights Templar in the New World" or "Grail Across the Atlantic" et al for your facts.

If this thread is any indication of your methodology then I'm afraid your premise if flawed from the start. Simply providing a document of unquestionable provenance to substantiate the name Charing Cross to precede Sherbrooke cannot be such a challenge if that were the case. Instead you chose to blindly accept Leopold's explanation without confirming her (nothing more than) hearsay.

The same argument went on about Oak Island and three boys rowing out to the uninhabited island in the summer 1795, until someone took the time in the archives to show that statement was inconsistent with the record.

Unfortunately you have conjured an entire alternate history for the place and based upon Leopold's incorrect information. Its ok, people do make mistakes....

wayward wrote:
Certainly not laughable, IMHO, if you can't find evidence of what you would consider a proper date then you can't call my dates wrong.


Really? You have not furnished a single shred of evidence, rather only offered the hearsay ramblings of Leopold. This is not evidence and it is not a fact because Leopold's claim is easily refuted and cannot stand as a statement on its own. There is nothing to support her assertion and by extension your date.

The placing of the plaque might have been recorded then again it might not have been, but on the possibility the event was not recorded and the world may never know exactly when, you somehow now have license pick any date that you want, regardless of how much it flies in the face of worldly research and authentic historical records? Yes that is laughable.
The post Revolutionary history of Oak Island is a complex web of lies and partial truths to sort through.

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Re: Scott Wolter has it wrong

Postby wayward on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:52 pm

n4n224ccw wrote:
wayward wrote: Its not a secret, I just don't want to tell you yet, but of course you could figure it out yourself. Beginning with nine supposed Knights on a supposed quest to protect pilgrims shortly after the Christian conquest of the Holy Land in the First Crusade. Actually it begins a little before that with a Jewish Rabbi named Rashi from Troyes.


I've researched, examined, and confirmed what is factual and what is not, a little more closely than you, especially events post 1308. I suggest you try the same and depart from such scholarly sources as "Knights Templar in the New World" or "Grail Across the Atlantic" et al for your facts.

If this thread is any indication of your methodology then I'm afraid your premise if flawed from the start. Simply providing a document of unquestionable provenance to substantiate the name Charing Cross to precede Sherbrooke cannot be such a challenge if that were the case. Instead you chose to blindly accept Leopold's explanation without confirming her (nothing more than) hearsay.

The same argument went on about Oak Island and three boys rowing out to the uninhabited island in the summer 1795, until someone took the time in the archives to show that statement was inconsistent with the record.

Unfortunately you have conjured an entire alternate history for the place and based upon Leopold's incorrect information. Its ok, people do make mistakes....

wayward wrote:
Certainly not laughable, IMHO, if you can't find evidence of what you would consider a proper date then you can't call my dates wrong.


Really? You have not furnished a single shred of evidence, rather only offered the hearsay ramblings of Leopold. This is not evidence and it is not a fact because Leopold's claim is easily refuted and cannot stand as a statement on its own. There is nothing to support her assertion and by extension your date.

The placing of the plaque might have been recorded then again it might not have been, but on the possibility the event was not recorded and the world may never know exactly when, you somehow now have license pick any date that you want, regardless of how much it flies in the face of worldly research and authentic historical records? Yes that is laughable.




"A little more closely than me", I think not, when we were discussing the navigation abilities of 14th century seaman you had no idea! I have never read "Knights Templar in the New World" or "Grail Across the Atlantic" actually I think that is "Holy Grail" by Michael Bradley, I'm sure you will let me know if I am wrong!
As for Leopolds explanation you have blindly rejected it with no confirmation. As for mistakes, I do not think I am wrong, oops there we go again with "I think".
I don't care about the three boys rowing out to Oak Island, that has nothing to do with my premises.
You have offered no creditable evidence that my premise is wrong, sorry!
The placing of the plaque is interesting in that the date was not recorded so either one of us could be correct, I pick me!
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Re: Scott Wolter has it wrong

Postby n4n224ccw on Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:19 am

wayward wrote:
"A little more closely than me", I think not, when we were discussing the navigation abilities of 14th century seaman you had no idea!


If this thread is any indication of how you may have imagined 14th C navigational abilities and techniques of Europeans, then yes, I have no idea of what you imagine they were capable of doing, real or otherwise.

It is all alternate history that you're suggesting, so I guess you are more than capable to suggest alternate history for every little aspect/issue so that you can tell your story and arrive at your conclusion.

I'll dig up the origins to the Charring Cross at New Ross you can count on that :wink: While it takes a crank mere seconds to imagine anything they wish, it sometimes takes years to absolutely and resoundingly disprove through a search of records, but I think I have enought to go on.

I totally understand why you need to hold on to Charing Cross, without it your entire premise falls flat on it face.
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Re: Scott Wolter has it wrong

Postby wayward on Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:47 am

n4n224ccw wrote:
wayward wrote:
"A little more closely than me", I think not, when we were discussing the navigation abilities of 14th century seaman you had no idea!


If this thread is any indication of how you may have imagined 14th C navigational abilities and techniques of Europeans, then yes, I have no idea of what you imagine they were capable of doing, real or otherwise.

I totally understand why you need to hold on to Charing Cross, without it your entire premise falls flat on it face.



You didn't think 14th century Templar Sailors had the ability to follow latitudes, and I showed that they did. You also didn't think these same sailors had any interaction with the Norse in Scotland. As for alternate history, don't forget that the idea of a Norse settlement in North America some 500 years prior to the voyage of Columbus was alternate history until 1960. And btw Helge was a man.

My premise does not fall flat on its face without a site named Charing Cross. It begins with 4-5 Templar vessels loaded with among other things 160,000 florins of gold, spending the winter of 1307-08 0n Lock Etive in Scotland, anchored next to Ardchattan Priory. Ardchattan was a spinoff of the Cistercian Order to which the Templars belonged. In early 1308 they met with Robert the Bruce at Ardchattan along with some of the local clans, one of which included my ancestors. Important to remember is that there is no way the Monks at Ardchattan would have known about the arrests in France or the Popes November order to arrest the Templars in the rest of Europe.
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Re: Scott Wolter has it wrong

Postby n4n224ccw on Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:40 pm

Narrowing in on the railway as being the cause and source to Charing Cross association with New Ross.

Petition of Rev E.T. Wollard, NS House of Assembly Journals Vol 55 page 50 dated 20 April 1891

http://books.google.ca/books?id=n4RaAAA ... ss&f=false

I wonder who those other folks were, perhaps Elliott? Item one to find during the next visit to the archives.
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Re: Scott Wolter has it wrong

Postby wayward on Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:01 pm

n4n224ccw wrote:Narrowing in on the railway as being the cause and source to Charing Cross association with New Ross.

Petition of Rev E.T. Wollard, NS House of Assembly Journals Vol 55 page 50 dated 20 April 1891

http://books.google.ca/books?id=n4RaAAA ... ss&f=false

I wonder who those other folks were, perhaps Elliott? Item one to find during the next visit to the archives.



WOW, I'm almost beginning to hope you find it.
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Re: Scott Wolter has it wrong

Postby n4n224ccw on Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:21 pm

There were two petitions made by the residence of New Ross for railroad service. The first was 20th April 1891 as previously mentioned (NSARM RG5, Series P Vol 68 # 5..microfiche 9956) and the second from 8 March 1910 (NSARM RG5, Series P, Vol 65 #5..microfiche 9950).

The first petition would have been prompted by the NS Central Railway's instruction to go between New Germany and Windsor or Bedford, the second petition prompted by the Halifax and South West Railway starting up business.

Unfortunately the 1891 petition is a little blurred on the microfiche but it is readable.

We can see from the 1891 petition for O.S. Elliott to be the first signature after Rev Wollard which should carry some weight to indicate he was part of a driving force behind the petition, if not the originator within the community of 172 signatures

Again on the 1910 petition O.S. Elliot's signature can be found 5th on the list of 190 signatures.

There can be no doubt for Elliot's connection with attempting to bring the railway to New Ross on two different occasions.

Combine this with Elliot being credited with placing a concrete block with the words “Charing Cross” and Bob Rafuse's statement "Charing Cross is named after an old Railroad station in England", the connection grows toward establishing when the area gained its informal name of Charing Cross and why.

Next visit to the archive is to check out Rev Wollard and finally a few Lunenburg County newspapers for 28 Aug 1917.

wayward wrote:
Also interesting is the words on the 1914 machine gun stand which certainly predates the gun, and reads simply, "CHARING CROSS".

And the monument that replaces it reads "originally placed at CHARING CROSS"

The first world war monument was originally placed in the would be area for a train station which of course never came, near the cross roads. A new monument was erected in a different location using the base of the old monument or the words to remember the old monument.
http://ns1763.ca/lunenco/rossmem.html
Attachments
new ross 1910 railway petition sign block.JPG
new ross 1910 railway petition sign block.JPG (62.41 KiB) Viewed 7018 times
new ross petition railway 1891 sign.JPG
new ross petition railway 1891 sign.JPG (66.78 KiB) Viewed 6971 times
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http://www.oakislandtheories.com
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Re: Scott Wolter has it wrong

Postby n4n224ccw on Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:14 pm

I stopped in New Ross after work today to take a photo of this stone in question, so the remainder of the forum can see.
Attachments
new ross Elliott monument-001.jpg
new ross Elliott monument-001.jpg (79.59 KiB) Viewed 6902 times
The post Revolutionary history of Oak Island is a complex web of lies and partial truths to sort through.

http://www.oakislandtheories.com
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