Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby badinfluence63 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:13 am

N,

Remember that long fault line with 2 distinct levels you showed us all once that ran to the otherside, The Blankenship house side and fresh water pond #2 side? Wonder what thats all about in conjunction to everything?

n4n224ccw wrote:If you know where to look, one can find some other shafts, or rather the surface features which indicate a shaft is below, the main pit of the Halifax shaft is one such example. We can easily be confused today about remaining ground features. Are these features actual shafts or just pits for garbage or reservoirs of fresh water or even an outhouse?

I am beginning to think there might be more shafts than we know about. The unknown exact work of the Halifax Company is one such example. While history saved a few sketches of their efforts, it does not provide exact details.

The 1862/63 workbooks I discovered in the JB McCully family papers also tells of another shaft located on the beach at Smith's Cove. While it does not indicate the depth, it does mention cribbing down to 80ft or so. Additionally it provides details about four separate cribbed tunnel running from this shaft.

In 1929 the government commenced aerial surveys of NS. The set relating to Oak Island are of sufficient detail to see some scares of treasure hunting. The photo clearly shows the cave in pit area. Missing is any sign of the pit or subsequent searchers pits. About the only thing of interest is a slight dark discolouration that is rectangular in shape. It could be a searchers shaft with the discolouration being a result of differing vegetation.

Subsequent aerial photographs show greater detail and how searching progressed. These aerials combined with Nolan Brothers survey of 1959 are about the best we can get before Dunfield.

Confusing it all is and as another thread points out, even questions the location for the shaft #1 or if you will, the original money pit. If you care to really study the island's history, you will read that during the Onslow group's first attempt, they ceased operations for the Sabbath with shaft #1 becoming flooded over night. On their second attempt the following year, their shaft #2 becoming quickly flooded with the workmen escaping with only the loss of their tools. Fast forwarding to 1849/1850, those workmen cleared out 'a' pit and discovered tools which they thought to be those tools lost during Onslow's second attempt. One must then ask, which shaft were the men of 1849 in if they discovered those tools? One can easily understand the confusion regarding shaft #1.

Diving deeper into the history, one should know Anthony Vaughan pointed out the very spot to the men of 1849, thus if they were actually in shaft #2, Anthony did not point out the original money pit!

We must wonder if Anthony's memory was wrong and if so, why didn't John Smith point out the original money pit? Both of them wrong seems more akin to intentionally pointing out the wrong spot. Further compounding this problem is for some of John Smith's adult children not pointing out shaft #1 and they were still residence of the island.
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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby n4n224ccw on Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:19 am

badinfluence63 wrote:N,

Remember that long fault line with 2 distinct levels you showed us all once that ran to the otherside, The Blankenship house side and fresh water pond #2 side? Wonder what thats all about in conjunction to everything?



Yes I do remember that.
The post Revolutionary history of Oak Island is a complex web of lies and partial truths to sort through.

http://www.oakislandtheories.com
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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby badinfluence63 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:22 am

Any speculations? I know what my mind conjurs up.........I mean its to straight and precise to be mother nature,no?

n4n224ccw wrote:
badinfluence63 wrote:N,

Remember that long fault line with 2 distinct levels you showed us all once that ran to the otherside, The Blankenship house side and fresh water pond #2 side? Wonder what thats all about in conjunction to everything?



Yes I do remember that.
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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby badinfluence63 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:24 am

I know some other stuff as do you and others but as you well know not everything if you know whats good for you should be publically posted.

n4n224ccw wrote:
badinfluence63 wrote:N,

Remember that long fault line with 2 distinct levels you showed us all once that ran to the otherside, The Blankenship house side and fresh water pond #2 side? Wonder what thats all about in conjunction to everything?



Yes I do remember that.
[/quote]
Last edited by badinfluence63 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby badinfluence63 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:09 am

I am not trying to discourage your approach. However as I read your angle my thoughts can't help me to think that in a perfect world ergo, nothing on the island has been touched, you'd be spot on. And Mr Restall in fact tried to painfully go that same route of reconstructing as it were known if I understood Lees book correctly.

However the biggest imnpression left in my mind has been the basically whole scale destruction and altering of the surface and subsurface of Oak Island. All the while the porrous anhydrite being worn away by the ebb and flow of the tide over the years further meandering the original underground workings to what end?

TheSwede wrote:Is there anyway I can get hold of the Nolan/Bates survey from 1959 ? The full survey ? Showing distances and drilled stones ?

And again.. the full roper survey of 1936 ?

Another thought.. If we take into concideration the measuring technology of 16th / 17th century Europians, then I think we do not need too exact coordinates of things on the Island. They had good low tech methods for measuring, but maybe measures within a few feet in exactness would be ok ? That is IF, ground markers are used to point out treasure or anything alike.

What would be needed I think is a rectangle between four coordinates, in which good investigation can say that the original money pit COULD NOT have been located outside this box. A similar box for the cave in pit would be nice.

Could anyone contribue with this ? Digging for diamonds ?
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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby JodyLane3 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:25 pm

Paul,

Very interesting commentary I have read from you. You point out that Smith's adult children would be able to point out the exact spot of the Original Money Pit. And also with the original discovery of the Money Pit you state that Anthony Jr would have been 5 years old at the timeline you figure to be 1787. That got me to thinking. Something didn't ring clear. After an hour ride it hit me that by the 1840s, when Anthony Jr was giving his tales to new searchers, yes he was probably inserting himself into the timeline either by claiming to be older than he was or moving up the date. But the date isn't important to me in the whole context of the discovery and the information Jr was passing along. Yes could have concocted and told the story of discovery in about 30 seconds. But Smith, McGuiness and a member of the Vaughn family were involved in the Onslow Company roughly 1802-04. Say the Vaughn family member was still dear old dad Anthony Sr. It is possible that Jr could have been either a the site or working with of for the company. What age does this make Jr in the years 1802-04? About 20-22. Surely if he had played some part or had knowledge of the digging and flooding of the Money Pit and the digging and flooding of Shaft #2 he would have a great to know and share other than 30 seconds worth of information which I think I got the 30 seconds from your site. As for the adult children of Smith being about to point out the exact location of the Money Pit as opposed to Shaft #2, how old were they in 1802-04?

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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby n4n224ccw on Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:34 pm

Jody,

Below is a complete listing of John Smith's children. There were other families moving to that island before 1800, keep that in mind.

Neal Smith, Son of John, and Anne Smith, was born in Chester on the Eleventh day of November, one thousand Eight hundred. Recorded November 30th, 1805. Ebenezer Fitch, Town Clerk.

Susanna Smith, Daughter of John, and Anne Smith, was born in Chester on the fourteenth day of November, one thousand, Eight hundred and four. Recorded November 30th, 1805. Ebenezer Fitch, Town Clerk.

Mary Smith, Daughter of Jno., and Ann Smith, was Born in Chester on the Ninth day of January, One thousand, Eight hundred and Seven. Recorded Feby. 23rd, 1815. Jno. E. Pence, T.C.

Ann Smith, Daughter of Jno., and Ann Smith, was Born in Chester on the Twenty Second day of Jany., one thousand, Eight hundred and Nine. Recorded Feby. 23rd, 1815. Jno. E. Pence, T.C.

William Smith, Son of Jno., and Ann Smith, was Born in Chester on the Twenty third day of Novr., one thousand, Eight hundred and Ten. Recorded Feby. 23rd, 1815. Jno. E. Pence, T.C.

James Smith, Son of Jno., and Ann Smith, was Born in Chester on the Twenty fourth day of August, one thousand, Eight hundred and thirteen. Recorded Feby. 23rd, 1815. Jno. E. Pence, Town C.

Jno. Smith, Son of Jno., And Ann Smith, was Born in Chester on the Sixth day of November, one thousand, Eight hundred and fifteen. Recorded Octr. 8th, 1817. Jno. E. Pence, Town Clerk.

Margarett Smith, daughter of Jno., and Ann Smith, was Born in Chester on the twenty third day of July, One thousand, Eight hundred and Seventeen. Recorded Octr. 8th, 1817. Jno. E. Pence, Town Clerk.

Hanah, of John, and Ann Smith, was Born in Chester on the 10th of April, 1820. Recorded January 23rd, 1822. Jno. Bezanson, Town Clerk.

Rachel, of John, and Ann Smith, was born on the 11th of May, 1822. Recorded July 21st, 1822. John Bezanson, Town Clerk.

Ephream, of John, and Ann Smith, was Born in Chester on the 15th of March, 1824. Recorded Sept. 8th, 1824. John Bezanson, Town Clerk.

Joseph Duncan Smith, Son of John, and Ann Smith, was Born in Chester July 18, 1826. Recorded May 17, 1842. H.S. Jones, T.C.

Elizabeth, Daughter of John, and Ann Smith, was Born in Chester October 25, 1829. Recorded May 17, 1842. H.S. Jones, T.C.

In 1810 John built his 'second' Oak Island house on lot 18, his previous house was on either lot 9,10, or 11. He apparently build his house only 12 or 15 ft from the MP so that he could keep watch on it. Why would he have a need to keep an eye on the pit? Surely if it were all flooded and collapsed there would be no risk to anyone quickly accessing and stealing the treasure. If the rational for building his second home near the pit is true, this suggests access to the underground may have been easier than we think.

Regardless, children play, explore and know their playground like the back of their hand. At minimum they would have reasonably known the reason for two depressions in the ground, perhaps even warned to stay away as it could have posed a danger. Anthony Vaughan Jr's explanation for locating the pit was because of a stick they planted in the ground to mark the spot about 45 years earlier!

Drilled surface stones being 'found' for the 'first time' during the late 1800s and only a few feet from Smith house also seems suspicious, especially the large one just north of the MP. I think the drilled stones were well known to the Smith family and they knew of their origins, no reason to mention them to the 1849 crew because they were unimportant.

There can be absolutely no doubt about Anthony Jr's participation at some point. The only outstanding question is in what capacity, function, or roll did he serve with respect to a legend? Jr must have been pissed at Sr when he started selling off his Oak Island lots outside of the family.

Fact is for the men of 1849 tried to gather the island's history. Robert Creelman and James (surname eludes me at this time) tried to get the story. How did these men get a story that was very light on details and a departure from historical facts such as property deeds, Poll Tax, and marriage records? We must wonder why the Vaughan family's extensive connection to the island was never mentioned and a whole bunch of other reasonable information is missing. At minimum the year of discovery should have been detailed and I don't think it too much expect even for even the month.

This researcher suggests that nobody from the island was talking and relied upon the sole spokesman service of Anthony Vaughan Jr to provide controlled details. The only person outside of Anthony Vaughan to tell of the history was Mary Smith and her story is much different, one which excludes her own father from discovery! This is interesting because Mary would have told this version during the late 1820s or 1830s.

The Martin Marshall family papers might hold a clue or even the answers to all of this....the hunt for them still goes on.
The post Revolutionary history of Oak Island is a complex web of lies and partial truths to sort through.

http://www.oakislandtheories.com
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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby JodyLane3 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:14 pm

Actually my question of the ages of the Smith kids was rhetorical. I knew their ages. I was just pointing out that your comments on Vaughn Jr being too young at discovery in 1787 to know anything could also be applied to Smiths kids about the Onslow operations. So you can't use the same argument for something one way and against it another way. C yah later Bro.
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