Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

A restricted area for registered users to describe their own research, request assistance or organise group/shared research projects and digs.

Moderator: Jo

Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby JodyLane3 on Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:39 pm

Actually Paul i am looking into the locations of all the Pits/Shafts that were adjacent to or connecting to the original Money Pit. Thats where this project started in the back of my head 30 years ago when i read Furneaux's book. I knew then that that Hedden and Chappell screwed up big time.
JodyLane3
Digging for Gold
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Terre Haute, IN

Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby n4n224ccw on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:07 am

Jody,

That sure is a long time to be looking for these answers. The workbook records of the underground and letters wrote to Blair only add to the confusion. In one instance, the diggers of 1897 tunnelled into a cribbed shaft that was collapsed at the top, they thought this might be the original MP.

I have a copy of the 1919 survey made by William Lozier. It is very unconventional in that he supposedly only used drilled stones for survey way points; however, the plan does speak to where subsequent and possible errors exist in locating the original MP. Refer to RV Harris who explains the importance of Lozier's survey.

Referring to Lozier's survey only, a line drawn from the supposed drain through the cave in pit would pass north of his 'Tupper Pit'. This is consistent for the narrative attached to the Tupper Pit which placed this pit southeast of the MP.

I have attached an extract from Lozier's survey.

Image

Returning back to the Nolan/Bates survey, we can see two pits, the Tupper Pit and the MP. We know Bates was the apprentice of Roper during the survey of 1937, thus he reasonable should have been present during the very time of Hedden. RV Harris says Hedden went to great lengths to locate the original MP, so we must wonder where Hedden got his information.

Image

Once again we can turn to RV Harris who details Hedden was in close contact with William Chappell and Blair. No doubt Hedden used Chappell's shaft as a reference to the MP's location thinking Chappell surely knew what he was talking about.

Going back further to 1931 and to the efforts of William Chappell, we can see where the potential mistake may have been made. Chappell's last efforts on the island were during 1900, thus 31 years expired with much additional work being done.

Trying to make sense of pit location via the 1929 aerials is impossible, further the few available photographs between 1900 and 1931 show very confusing and obscured ground conditions.

We can read that Chappell and Blair disagreed as to the location with Blair saying it was more north and to the east; however Chappell's location used in 1931 is what they thought to be the MP from 1897. This shaft must be the shaft identified as the MP on the Nolan/Bates survey.

So we must ask why in 1931 Chappell thought this was the MP when in 1919 the Lozier survey shows what shafts/pits were visible.

Once again we can turn to RV Harris and the shaft the men found which I mentioned in paragraph 1. this shaft was cribbed and they could climb up to the 30ft level, there they found collapsed timbers which formed a platform, above that 30 ft of overburden. This description sounds how one could easily compare to the demise of the Tupper Pit. Yes, once again the Tupper Pit comes into play and this really does seem like the root of the issue, a wandering Tupper Pit from drawing to drawing.

If we think for a moment for the men of 1897 men actually located the remains of the Tupper Pit, then everything seems to fall into place matching the descriptions from 1863.

Looking back to the Bates/Nolan survey and interchanging MP for Tupper Pit, then their Tupper Pit should be shaft #2, which means the real MP should be about 14ft west of that location.


Image

Once again, pit after pit after pit, no continuity of work, plans, even a consistent numbering plan for the pits. The final thing is for two previously unknown attempts during the 1880s (only coming to light in the last few months) and several attempts from the time Chappell ended in 1900 to restarting in 1931.

Of course I could be totally wrong with Chappell's MP being the real MP, if so they dug right through the bottom and found no treasure...the end.
The post Revolutionary history of Oak Island is a complex web of lies and partial truths to sort through.

http://www.oakislandtheories.com
User avatar
n4n224ccw
Digging for Diamonds
 
Posts: 718
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:12 pm
Location: Halifax Nova Scotia

Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby JodyLane3 on Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:26 pm

Actually didnt wait 30 years for an answer. Just 23 years to catch the bug again.
JodyLane3
Digging for Gold
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Terre Haute, IN

Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby n4n224ccw on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:37 pm

JodyLane3 wrote:Actually didnt wait 30 years for an answer. Just 23 years to catch the bug again.


I understand, it does come and go doesn't it?

While this thread is getting off the Cave in Pit....

I previously mentioned another person who attempted to capture the history and I could only recall the person’s first name being James. I looked through my documents and found his letters, his name is James McNutt who was an active participant in the dig since 1849 as both a digger but also as an officer in one of the companies, he was also friends with the Lynds family. James was on the island and no doubt saw the inscribed stone in Smith's fireplace along with his companion Robert Creelman.

Items of interest from his letters mentioning the details he captured are the following:

-four men originally dug in the pit, no names given.
-at 10ft found a tier of wood, pit to be 12ft in diameter.
-at 20ft found a another tier of wood,
-at 30ft hued timber, pick marks clearly visible in the pits side. (was the wood at 10 and 20 ft only logs?)

-7 years pass after the four men gave up when Simeon Lynds calls on Vaughan (first name not specified) and informed of the circumstances.

-at 40ft a tier of charcoal,
-at 50ft a tier of smooth stones from the beach with figures and letters cut on them (some of these might be at or near the original Smith house)
-at 60ft a tier of Manilla grass and the rind of coconut
-at 70ft a tier of putty
-at 80ft a stone, 3ft long and 1ft square with figures and letter cut on it and it was free stone not being from this coast.
-reached 90ft on a Saturday night, struck down with an iron bar on the east side of pit and hit wood at 98ft.
-left tools in the pit.
-returned Monday pit was flooded.
-sunk a new shaft SOUTH of the original pit to undermine from below but failed. (no mention of why it failed)

-1849 Onslow folks form a new company, return to the island, only to discover the property owner filled in both pits (this sure explains much and is a departure from Creelman/Blair/RV Harris who claim the pits caved it)

-cleared pit to 85ft flooded out
-erected platform at high-tide level
-bored 5 holes to a depth of 106ft
-wood and the likes brought up, but in hole 5 the most eastern hole, brought up three lengths of copper wire.
-lost several pods belonging to the auger at 98ft and downwards (these items have never been reported as found.
-attempted to locate source of salt water (must have thought a tunnel)
-search sandy beach in cove because it was suspiciously void of rocks (another account says water drained out at low tide, perhaps a combination of both)
-cleared off sand between high and low tide and found a pit covered in manilla grass and coconut rind
-below grass found broken stone nicely laid out in arches to below low water mark.

-built a dam but not far enough out, a storm washed it out.
-sunk a pit 100ft from the dam in a straight line with the treasure pit, located drain at 75ft, tried to block by driving down wood logs but unsuccessful (explains the mysterious vertical wooden logs discovered in this area)
-dug a shaft to the east, north, and west of treasure pit but no drain was discovered (thus must not have encountered water)

This segment of McNutt's history end in 1854 with the company giving up....he does resume with other operations during the 1860s but that is for other postings

So by 1854, just how many pits are there?

#1 Original Treasure pit
#2 Onslow (south of MP ~1805)
#3 100ft from dam
#4,5,6 (east, north, and west of Original Pit ~1854)

This makes for 5 pits in close proximity, the MP surrounded by four others.

This is where the 15 Aug 1857 Liverpool Transcript article is very important, wrote by a third party eyewitness. This article mentions three pits are still open. This of course must be from the last treasure hunt ending in 1854.

Which three pits are still open is unknown; however it stands to reason to be the three 1854 pits as they did not encounter flood water. The author 'has it on good authority' the first pit reached 107ft!!! Further the author says they were flooded out and refilled the pit, then sunk another and another and finally a fourth. Give it a read and study.

Going back through all of the surveys and all of the drawings, none show such a tight grouping of pits. The mention of the MP and 1805 pits being refilled by Smith and one pit from 1854 being refilled could explain why rivers of mud would flow into the tunnels of subsequent searchers and to explain why some items were found. I imagine many things got thrown down those shafts over the years.
The post Revolutionary history of Oak Island is a complex web of lies and partial truths to sort through.

http://www.oakislandtheories.com
User avatar
n4n224ccw
Digging for Diamonds
 
Posts: 718
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:12 pm
Location: Halifax Nova Scotia

Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby . . . on Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:32 pm

It certainly is interesting stuff.

However, to get back on track, I don't know what Dunfield's meticulous notes say on the subject, and irrespective of what self-styled experts here claim without having done any of the necessary work, I can't see how the Cave-In Pit could possibly have been at the centre of Dunfield's Cave-In Shaft excavation.

The image below shows the possible locations of the ground markers - according to my reconstruction of the Oak Island geometry - with part of the Roper survey superimposed. As can be seen, in all likelihood, the Cave-In Pit lay at the northwest of the excavation. If anyone has any useful observations - excluding self-indulgent anti-social or puerile comment - you might best continue the discussion on "Paul's" forum (http://www.oakislandtheories.com) by adding comment in the equivalent thread to be found under 'Dunfield Period'.


Image
Last edited by . . . on Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
. . .
Digging for Diamonds
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:58 pm
Location: West Midlands, UK

Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby JodyLane3 on Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:09 pm

Hey ...

Glad to see you are back. Sorry I got this thread off kilter. I for one would be interested in seeing where the cave in pit originally was situated. I too dont claim all the answers and my speculation too is open to challenge. Jvst dont give up.

joseph jody lane
JodyLane3
Digging for Gold
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Terre Haute, IN

Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby badinfluence63 on Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:25 am

I knew you couldn't help yourself..you need an audience,lol. You said you're never coming back..that makes you a lyer too, :lol: . Your criteria for self indulgent anti social or puerile comment has just described yourself. The only self styled expert presenting here is you.

It is you who continue to be pompously condesending and over indulgent of ones self. But that is something that has always plagued the mystery from the beginning and continues.

RD2...RD's son use to have a web site where he shared some of his fathers notes. And RD 1's hands on experience as reflected in some of the shared notes was no where near as complicated as you present things here. I'm pretty sure your over thinking yourself on this one as have many before you. Be careful it could make you crazy and that may be what the problem is.



. . . wrote:It certainly is interesting stuff.

However, to get back on track, I don't know what Dunfield's meticulous notes say on the subject, and irrespective of what self-styled experts here claim without having done any of the necessary work, I can't see how the Cave-In Pit could possibly have been at the centre of Dunfield's Cave-In Shaft excavation.

The image below shows the possible locations of the ground markers - according to my reconstruction of the Oak Island geometry - with part of the Roper survey superimposed. As can be seen, in all likelihood, the Cave-In Pit lay at the northwest of the excavation. If anyone has any useful observations - excluding self-indulgent anti-social or puerile comment - you might best continue the discussion on "Paul's" forum (http://www.oakislandtheories.com) by adding comment in the equivalent thread to be found under 'Dunfield Period'.


Image
Whewww...where does the time go!
User avatar
badinfluence63
Treasure hunter
 
Posts: 7427
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:23 am
Location: New England and relatively close and accessible to Nova Scotia.

Previous

Return to Research Projects

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


Fatal error: ./cache/ is NOT writable. in /home/oakislan/public_html/forum/includes/acm/acm_file.php on line 103