Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby JodyLane3 on Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:57 pm

Hey my friend Vincent,

I wovld love if you covld email me the pictures of Dunfields excavations. My email is jodylane1965@hotmail.com My Dunfield Crater description was what i call his 100 foot wide by 134 foot deep hole he dug at the Money Pit site itself and its location to the Hedden shaft that is still visable to this day. If you have photos of that area i wovld love to see them too.
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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby n4n224ccw on Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:33 pm

Dunfield's field sketch of Smith's Cove, dated 25 Aug 1965 shows where he located (what he thought to be) the original cave in pit.

Cheers
The post Revolutionary history of Oak Island is a complex web of lies and partial truths to sort through.

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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby badinfluence63 on Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:55 pm

GB,

Pompous only to those who post feeling their comments are above reproach as you seem to posture yourself.

The fact that the 30 plus foot bluff over looking the ocean once existed is not known by many and I believe a fact pointed out/shared by Lee Lamb on one afternoon that I had the pleasure to chat with her.

Back biting, no I don't think so. I'm sorry if I failed to gush and present mysef as amazed by your pretentiousness. Your kind seem to be a dime a dozen around here and what puts a bad taste in the mouth of the Oak Island Treasure mystery.

RD not only kept meticulous journal of his endeavors, in his passing, some to much of what he had is currently in the possesion of a few fortunate individuals.

Any one foolish enough to waste their time chasing your fancy, well, that causes me to chuckle at the thought,lol. And get in line, its starts behind you contemporary/ peer, Cerris Francis.

But this is a place for many to present and propose and I encourage you to continue with one exception...broad shoulders,water off a ducks back and be prepared to be taken to task,even by those you consider beneath you. It sorta comes with the territory.

. . . wrote:bi63

Ah! Back to the old days and the old ways. Alas, as I might have expected of some posters on this forum your observation is pompous and of no help whatsoever. Of course I may be wrong about the crater which is why I appealed for help from fellow researchers, in the first place, to identify whether or not this is the case. Alternatively, I may be correct but the only way this can be resolved is for somebody with the necessary expertise to repeat the exercise and check my results. And may I suggest that if you intend to indulge in irrelevant back-biting then the least you could do is to embody it in wit.

You take the position that you know Dunfield was infallible and, in particular, could not possibly have based his actions upon information given to him by others that was wrong. You know for sure that Dunfield could not possibly have been misinformed. You are, in effect, telling me that the Dunfield crater must be centred over the site of the original Cave-In Pit because he kept meticulous notes. Bull shit!

If this is the level of help researchers into the mystery can expect from participants in the Research Projects section of this forum then it has failed and I bow out, as before, much humbled and belittled by your superior intellect and knowledge.

But please do keep up the good work in my absence.
Whewww...where does the time go!
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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby JodyLane3 on Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:23 pm

Yeah Swede the locations of so many shafts and markers are in doubt or lost due to the haphazard way of treasure hunting over the years.
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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby badinfluence63 on Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:00 pm

I have been told that the money pit as it sits on display is not the original location. Cave in pit....the one where the lady and her cow fell in pit?

Going way back and before all the land disfigurement of Oak Island the debate about the origins of the workings of the aledged original unground system included among other things that corn was used to seal the flood tunnels for access and then once rotting would open them back up again. A sort of poor mans security system.

Yet to be authenticated as factual its does make one understand to what extent the damage to the island. MIssing a 30 plus foot bluff,money pit not being presented in its actual location and more boreholes then a GPR can dodge.

The only thing that is known to be accurate on that island is the survey marker where Nolans property abutts Dans and of course the property boundries of the current tenants of the island.

TheSwede wrote:So,what I can conclude here as beeing an OI newbee... the roper survey 1937 placement of the cave in pit is not certain ? is the position in relation to the other groundmarkers wrong or unreliable ?
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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby JodyLane3 on Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:14 pm

yep bad,

they ought to rename that fence in area called the Money Pit Shaft Number 2 or the 1804 Shaft. That is the only shaft known to be located in that area going by D'Arcy's books and other sources.

jody
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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby n4n224ccw on Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:27 am

If you know where to look, one can find some other shafts, or rather the surface features which indicate a shaft is below, the main pit of the Halifax shaft is one such example. We can easily be confused today about remaining ground features. Are these features actual shafts or just pits for garbage or reservoirs of fresh water or even an outhouse?

I am beginning to think there might be more shafts than we know about. The unknown exact work of the Halifax Company is one such example. While history saved a few sketches of their efforts, it does not provide exact details.

The 1862/63 workbooks I discovered in the JB McCully family papers also tells of another shaft located on the beach at Smith's Cove. While it does not indicate the depth, it does mention cribbing down to 80ft or so. Additionally it provides details about four separate cribbed tunnel running from this shaft.

In 1929 the government commenced aerial surveys of NS. The set relating to Oak Island are of sufficient detail to see some scares of treasure hunting. The photo clearly shows the cave in pit area. Missing is any sign of the pit or subsequent searchers pits. About the only thing of interest is a slight dark discolouration that is rectangular in shape. It could be a searchers shaft with the discolouration being a result of differing vegetation.

Subsequent aerial photographs show greater detail and how searching progressed. These aerials combined with Nolan Brothers survey of 1959 are about the best we can get before Dunfield.

Confusing it all is and as another thread points out, even questions the location for the shaft #1 or if you will, the original money pit. If you care to really study the island's history, you will read that during the Onslow group's first attempt, they ceased operations for the Sabbath with shaft #1 becoming flooded over night. On their second attempt the following year, their shaft #2 becoming quickly flooded with the workmen escaping with only the loss of their tools. Fast forwarding to 1849/1850, those workmen cleared out 'a' pit and discovered tools which they thought to be those tools lost during Onslow's second attempt. One must then ask, which shaft were the men of 1849 in if they discovered those tools? One can easily understand the confusion regarding shaft #1.

Diving deeper into the history, one should know Anthony Vaughan pointed out the very spot to the men of 1849, thus if they were actually in shaft #2, Anthony did not point out the original money pit!

We must wonder if Anthony's memory was wrong and if so, why didn't John Smith point out the original money pit? Both of them wrong seems more akin to intentionally pointing out the wrong spot. Further compounding this problem is for some of John Smith's adult children not pointing out shaft #1 and they were still residence of the island.
The post Revolutionary history of Oak Island is a complex web of lies and partial truths to sort through.

http://www.oakislandtheories.com
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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby JodyLane3 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:39 am

Ok Paul enough ifs. Based on your information which is way better than mine, what shaft do you think was dug up again with the Hedden and Chappell shafts?

your friend
Jody
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Re: Cave-In Pit / Cave-In Shaft

Postby n4n224ccw on Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:12 am

JodyLane3 wrote:Ok Paul enough ifs. Based on your information which is way better than mine, what shaft do you think was dug up again with the Hedden and Chappell shafts?

your friend
Jody


A picture is worth a 1000 words. The survey work in the first image was done by Fred Nolan 1959, the drawing by George Bates!

I'm certain they based this upon Hamilton's and Hedden's information and the work by John Whitney Lewis. They reported a water course being discovered at 93' and coming from the NEE. I have attached a segment of Lewis' drawing which shows this. Based upon a watercourse, they could reasonable conclude this should be the MP as it was originally described.

With that said and unknown to either, the Superintendent workbook from 1863 tells of the workmen in the money pit breaking into the pirate flood tunnel and following it to the end, cribbing it as they went along. This workbook was found in the JB McCully papers and appears to have never been shared! The story which Blair wrote was for these workmen to have been flooded out and never entered the pirate tunnel.

So the shaft identified as the MP by Hamilton, Hedden, and Lewis, then subsequently by Nolan and Bates could not have been the MP because they never mention finding the cribbed pirate tunnel. Additionally this could not be the MP because it was not reported to have been cribbed.

This leaves the other possibility for the pit to be shaft #2 by Onslow. While it certainly was uncribbed, it cannot be this shaft for the same reason above.

Referring back to the segment of the Nolan/Bates drawing, you can see lines to the extreme left of the image. These line represent Smith's foundation... and we know how far away Smith built his house from the MP, thus it cannot be the MP or Onslow shaft #2.

I think the pit enclosed by the Hedden, Chappell, Hamilton shaft is an unreported pumping pit or exploratory pit.

On a final note, the Nolan/Bates drawing shows bearings and distances for all of the drilled stones, cave in pit etc... as those items stood in 1959.

Image

in the image below, North is actually to the left.

Image
Last edited by n4n224ccw on Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
The post Revolutionary history of Oak Island is a complex web of lies and partial truths to sort through.

http://www.oakislandtheories.com
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